1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,231 The hardest thing has already been done 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,462 by the individual that's thinking about 3 00:00:04,462 --> 00:00:06,840 seeking help . They've already carried 4 00:00:06,849 --> 00:00:09,340 the burden by themselves . So , you 5 00:00:09,350 --> 00:00:11,550 know , how do we convince create 6 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,779 propagate , do all the positive things 7 00:00:13,789 --> 00:00:15,733 to help people understand that the 8 00:00:15,733 --> 00:00:17,733 hardest part's been done . And even 9 00:00:17,733 --> 00:00:19,845 though it seems harder when you break 10 00:00:19,845 --> 00:00:21,900 through that final barrier , the the 11 00:00:21,900 --> 00:00:24,510 goodness happens . Hi , sir , how are 12 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,459 you ? Good afternoon , sir . 13 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:31,267 Thanks for taking the time to sit down 14 00:00:31,267 --> 00:00:33,267 and talk mental health wellness and 15 00:00:33,267 --> 00:00:35,378 what A MC has been doing in the space 16 00:00:35,378 --> 00:00:37,544 of mental health and wellness . I know 17 00:00:37,544 --> 00:00:39,711 that the vast majority of airmen don't 18 00:00:39,711 --> 00:00:39,619 get the chance to sit down with their 19 00:00:39,630 --> 00:00:41,970 commander and ask about mental health . 20 00:00:42,020 --> 00:00:44,020 So I'll do my best to represent the 21 00:00:44,020 --> 00:00:46,242 airmen and we're very grateful for your 22 00:00:46,242 --> 00:00:48,759 openness and your transparency . As we 23 00:00:48,770 --> 00:00:51,103 talk through mental health and wellness . 24 00:00:51,103 --> 00:00:53,159 I know that we initially bonded over 25 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,214 our mutual love of the C 130 as Herc 26 00:00:55,214 --> 00:00:58,479 pilots and that's where it started for 27 00:00:58,490 --> 00:01:00,546 us and then quickly transformed into 28 00:01:00,546 --> 00:01:02,657 conversations on mental health . When 29 00:01:02,657 --> 00:01:04,879 we realized how passionate we both were 30 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:06,990 on the conversations of mental health 31 00:01:06,990 --> 00:01:09,101 and combat readiness and the way that 32 00:01:09,101 --> 00:01:11,212 those intersected , I think , kind of 33 00:01:11,212 --> 00:01:13,490 some divine intervention there , right . 34 00:01:13,490 --> 00:01:15,712 You know , that you're working in the A 35 00:01:15,712 --> 00:01:17,823 OC , uh , of course , I'm here in the 36 00:01:17,823 --> 00:01:20,157 front office and then , you know , some , 37 00:01:20,157 --> 00:01:22,268 you know , very opportune and perhaps 38 00:01:22,268 --> 00:01:24,490 divine uh intervention that , that puts 39 00:01:24,490 --> 00:01:26,434 us in a conversation that all of a 40 00:01:26,434 --> 00:01:28,101 sudden these things uh reveal 41 00:01:28,101 --> 00:01:30,268 themselves . So , pretty cool . Yeah . 42 00:01:30,268 --> 00:01:32,379 And I think you built the environment 43 00:01:32,379 --> 00:01:34,490 for that to happen because I'm one of 44 00:01:34,490 --> 00:01:34,440 the airmen that emailed you directly 45 00:01:34,449 --> 00:01:36,505 and I know a lot of airmen have done 46 00:01:36,505 --> 00:01:38,671 that , but you set that environment by 47 00:01:38,671 --> 00:01:40,616 telling airmen email me if there's 48 00:01:40,616 --> 00:01:42,505 something that matters to you and 49 00:01:42,505 --> 00:01:44,671 mental health mattered to me . I think 50 00:01:44,671 --> 00:01:46,671 when you look at the list of senior 51 00:01:46,671 --> 00:01:46,339 leaders in the Air Force who are 52 00:01:46,349 --> 00:01:48,571 pushing forward conversations on mental 53 00:01:48,571 --> 00:01:50,793 health and wellness , your name is very 54 00:01:50,793 --> 00:01:52,849 high at the top of that list and for 55 00:01:52,849 --> 00:01:55,016 anyone who knows her drivers and knows 56 00:01:55,016 --> 00:01:57,182 our culture and knows our background . 57 00:01:57,182 --> 00:01:56,949 That might be surprising . So I was 58 00:01:56,959 --> 00:01:59,015 hoping that you could share a little 59 00:01:59,015 --> 00:02:01,015 bit about your journey personally . 60 00:02:01,015 --> 00:02:03,237 What brought you to where you are today 61 00:02:03,237 --> 00:02:05,181 in your own experience with mental 62 00:02:05,181 --> 00:02:07,292 health and wellness . Certainly , you 63 00:02:07,292 --> 00:02:09,348 know , I grew up , uh I grew up in a 64 00:02:09,348 --> 00:02:11,515 household , uh you know , the son of a 65 00:02:11,515 --> 00:02:13,570 Vietnam vet , uh my grandfather , uh 66 00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:16,740 World War Two and Korea vet . And , you 67 00:02:16,750 --> 00:02:18,750 know , certainly it was something I 68 00:02:18,750 --> 00:02:20,972 aspired to be , I aspired to be a pilot 69 00:02:20,972 --> 00:02:22,917 in the United States Air Force . I 70 00:02:22,917 --> 00:02:25,028 aspired to be a warrior . I wanted to 71 00:02:25,028 --> 00:02:27,139 hear war stories from my granddad and 72 00:02:27,139 --> 00:02:29,929 my dad . Uh and you know , so I'm , I'm 73 00:02:29,940 --> 00:02:32,051 kind of executing plan a , you know , 74 00:02:32,051 --> 00:02:34,273 pilot in the pilot in the United States 75 00:02:34,273 --> 00:02:36,496 Air Force , but we never talked about , 76 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,800 you know , the , the the impacts that 77 00:02:39,809 --> 00:02:42,660 combat and high stress situations have , 78 00:02:43,050 --> 00:02:46,139 uh you know , on the person . And , you 79 00:02:46,149 --> 00:02:48,100 know , when I got uh through pilot 80 00:02:48,110 --> 00:02:50,332 training and wonderfully assigned the C 81 00:02:50,332 --> 00:02:53,830 130 into the line , uh almost instantly 82 00:02:53,839 --> 00:02:56,899 I was grounded due to having cancer . 83 00:02:57,589 --> 00:02:59,811 So , you know , I went in for a routine 84 00:02:59,811 --> 00:03:02,889 flight physical and I came out somebody 85 00:03:02,899 --> 00:03:05,380 with cancer and , um , you know , I 86 00:03:05,389 --> 00:03:07,389 didn't , we didn't talk about these 87 00:03:07,389 --> 00:03:09,611 things . Nobody said , hey , here's the 88 00:03:09,611 --> 00:03:11,500 psychological impact , here's the 89 00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:11,250 weight of what you're carrying . I 90 00:03:11,259 --> 00:03:13,740 thought I was letting down my family . 91 00:03:13,750 --> 00:03:15,806 I thought I was letting down the Air 92 00:03:15,806 --> 00:03:18,028 Force . I thought my dream was slipping 93 00:03:18,028 --> 00:03:20,250 away and I never once did the math that 94 00:03:20,250 --> 00:03:22,860 equated that with uh a mental stress . 95 00:03:22,869 --> 00:03:25,036 You know , I just thought , you know , 96 00:03:25,036 --> 00:03:27,147 this is , you know , this is just the 97 00:03:27,147 --> 00:03:29,091 burden that I'm carrying . Um fast 98 00:03:29,091 --> 00:03:31,369 forward . I get through that and , and , 99 00:03:31,369 --> 00:03:33,536 you know , as your career goes along , 100 00:03:33,536 --> 00:03:35,147 you get exposed to different 101 00:03:35,147 --> 00:03:37,258 experiences and uh I had , I had some 102 00:03:37,258 --> 00:03:39,202 significant ones . Uh I was in the 103 00:03:39,202 --> 00:03:42,070 Pentagon on 911 . Um I don't wanna say 104 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,191 that I was in the middle of the blast 105 00:03:44,191 --> 00:03:46,413 zone or anything , but I was definitely 106 00:03:46,413 --> 00:03:48,919 in the building uh deployed uh tasked 107 00:03:48,929 --> 00:03:51,040 with the mission where we picked up a 108 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,520 uh a sailor who had crashed in a 109 00:03:53,529 --> 00:03:55,751 helicopter and had been floating in the 110 00:03:55,751 --> 00:03:59,699 water for , for days . And uh on that 111 00:03:59,710 --> 00:04:01,488 mission , we had to open up the 112 00:04:01,488 --> 00:04:04,460 transfer ca casket and repack him and 113 00:04:04,470 --> 00:04:08,429 ice um had some friends killed 114 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,940 in the Cobar uh explosion uh at 115 00:04:11,949 --> 00:04:14,289 Cobar , Saudi Arabia , you know , 116 00:04:14,300 --> 00:04:17,019 commander multiple times in the desert 117 00:04:17,029 --> 00:04:18,807 uh for supporting operations in 118 00:04:18,807 --> 00:04:21,890 Afghanistan and Iraq . And , you know , 119 00:04:21,899 --> 00:04:24,630 each of these has a significant weight 120 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,862 and stress that comes with it . And not 121 00:04:26,862 --> 00:04:29,084 once did I ever think about the toll it 122 00:04:29,084 --> 00:04:31,350 was taking on me ? So , you know , do , 123 00:04:31,359 --> 00:04:34,160 would I lay awake and um would I lay 124 00:04:34,170 --> 00:04:36,369 awake and think about things that were 125 00:04:36,380 --> 00:04:38,436 gonna happen tomorrow ? Absolutely . 126 00:04:38,436 --> 00:04:40,491 Would I lay awake and think about uh 127 00:04:40,491 --> 00:04:42,436 missions that were underway and be 128 00:04:42,436 --> 00:04:44,890 concerned about the crew and all those 129 00:04:44,899 --> 00:04:47,121 things are true . Did I feel the weight 130 00:04:47,121 --> 00:04:49,989 of the uh responsibility that had been 131 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,600 given to me ? Absolutely . But never 132 00:04:52,609 --> 00:04:54,776 once did I do the math in any of these 133 00:04:54,776 --> 00:04:56,998 things on the toll or the burden it was 134 00:04:56,998 --> 00:04:59,640 putting on me . Um 135 00:05:01,019 --> 00:05:03,352 fast forward to wing command . You know , 136 00:05:03,352 --> 00:05:05,230 now you're , you know , now I'm 137 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,989 commanding thousands and not hundreds 138 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,839 and um exposed to uh , 139 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,720 you know , the , the ultimate 140 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,140 perhaps outcome that we all dread and 141 00:05:18,149 --> 00:05:20,299 fear , which is airmen , uh , that , 142 00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:22,566 that are under my command , committing 143 00:05:22,566 --> 00:05:24,288 suicide , harming themselves . 144 00:05:24,288 --> 00:05:26,649 Certainly , uh , the , the alcohol 145 00:05:26,690 --> 00:05:29,779 related incidents that are typical of 146 00:05:29,790 --> 00:05:31,901 someone that perhaps doesn't have the 147 00:05:31,901 --> 00:05:34,529 right balance , um , with the stresses 148 00:05:34,540 --> 00:05:36,540 that they're dealing with and , you 149 00:05:36,540 --> 00:05:38,429 know , felt an enormous amount of 150 00:05:38,429 --> 00:05:40,540 responsibility , not , you know , not 151 00:05:40,540 --> 00:05:42,707 just to , uh , hold people accountable 152 00:05:42,707 --> 00:05:44,818 for behaviors , but also why are they 153 00:05:44,818 --> 00:05:47,670 in this situation to begin with ? Uh 154 00:05:47,679 --> 00:05:50,012 And then finally to get to this command , 155 00:05:50,012 --> 00:05:52,346 you know , and I'm skipping some , some , 156 00:05:52,346 --> 00:05:54,512 some things along the way , but to get 157 00:05:54,512 --> 00:05:56,623 to this command and get to the uh the 158 00:05:56,623 --> 00:05:58,846 very first rally we had down at macdill 159 00:05:58,846 --> 00:06:01,179 Air Force Base where we have on a panel , 160 00:06:01,179 --> 00:06:02,957 the professionals that had just 161 00:06:02,957 --> 00:06:05,160 executed operation allies refuge , 162 00:06:05,170 --> 00:06:07,489 which today we are on the third 163 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:10,230 anniversary of that operation and to 164 00:06:10,239 --> 00:06:12,350 watch these pros and they were , they 165 00:06:12,350 --> 00:06:14,461 were , they were the full spectrum of 166 00:06:14,461 --> 00:06:16,739 airmen . They were the fly fix support . 167 00:06:16,739 --> 00:06:18,961 There were everything from on airplanes 168 00:06:18,961 --> 00:06:21,589 to on the ground to supporting from 169 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,130 safe havens in Germany to safe havens 170 00:06:24,140 --> 00:06:26,307 in New Jersey . And so it was the full 171 00:06:26,307 --> 00:06:28,959 spectrum there and to see the weight of 172 00:06:28,970 --> 00:06:30,970 that , to see people that said they 173 00:06:30,970 --> 00:06:33,137 were OK . But you could see clearly in 174 00:06:33,137 --> 00:06:35,192 their eyes and in their uh their non 175 00:06:35,192 --> 00:06:37,192 verbals that they weren't OK to see 176 00:06:37,192 --> 00:06:40,000 perhaps the strongest person , the most 177 00:06:40,010 --> 00:06:41,788 significant leader in the whole 178 00:06:41,788 --> 00:06:44,170 operation , admit that he was having 179 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,519 nightmares and you really get to see 180 00:06:47,529 --> 00:06:50,339 the impact of , of the weight of that 181 00:06:50,350 --> 00:06:52,461 stress , the weight of that operation 182 00:06:53,420 --> 00:06:56,000 and then to , and then to connect it to 183 00:06:56,010 --> 00:06:58,066 mental health . I mean to , to do an 184 00:06:58,066 --> 00:07:01,040 over intentional deliberate connection 185 00:07:01,429 --> 00:07:03,540 to mental health and say this is it , 186 00:07:04,510 --> 00:07:06,621 you know , what might be intuitive to 187 00:07:06,621 --> 00:07:08,510 others is now revealing itself to 188 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:10,621 people that normally don't address it 189 00:07:10,621 --> 00:07:13,040 that forwardly for you for you . Was 190 00:07:13,049 --> 00:07:15,470 that really a turning point in that 191 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,829 connection of ? I feel the weight , I 192 00:07:17,839 --> 00:07:19,950 feel the stress , I feel the burden . 193 00:07:19,950 --> 00:07:22,006 I'm hearing it in their voice as I'm 194 00:07:22,006 --> 00:07:24,290 seeing it , I felt it myself and all of 195 00:07:24,299 --> 00:07:27,720 a sudden making a connection to maybe 196 00:07:27,730 --> 00:07:31,010 there is something different than this 197 00:07:31,019 --> 00:07:32,963 than the way we're handling that . 198 00:07:32,963 --> 00:07:35,241 Absolutely . I saw the connection 100% . 199 00:07:35,241 --> 00:07:37,352 I mean , you know , it's like this is 200 00:07:37,352 --> 00:07:39,408 crazy analogy but you know , those , 201 00:07:39,408 --> 00:07:41,519 those pictures where you got to stare 202 00:07:41,519 --> 00:07:40,940 at it for a second and then all of a 203 00:07:40,950 --> 00:07:43,117 sudden it snaps into focus and you see 204 00:07:43,117 --> 00:07:45,283 the shark with the , with the treasure 205 00:07:45,283 --> 00:07:47,394 chest in the bottom of the ocean . Um 206 00:07:47,394 --> 00:07:49,061 OK , Google that if you don't 207 00:07:49,061 --> 00:07:51,228 understand it , but uh it it's snapped 208 00:07:51,228 --> 00:07:53,561 into focus . So now all of a sudden you , 209 00:07:53,561 --> 00:07:55,394 you start to hear about what are 210 00:07:55,394 --> 00:07:57,339 triggering events , what , what is 211 00:07:57,339 --> 00:07:57,000 keeping you up at night ? What happens 212 00:07:57,010 --> 00:07:59,177 when you think about these things , do 213 00:07:59,177 --> 00:08:01,343 you lose sleep , do you shut down ? Do 214 00:08:01,343 --> 00:08:03,621 you , uh what does avoidance look like ? 215 00:08:04,029 --> 00:08:05,807 And what are the , what are the 216 00:08:05,807 --> 00:08:07,918 symptoms of avoidance ? Uh You know , 217 00:08:07,918 --> 00:08:10,140 how , how do the relationships that are 218 00:08:10,140 --> 00:08:12,196 close to you and that matter most to 219 00:08:12,196 --> 00:08:14,418 you change when , when those things are 220 00:08:14,418 --> 00:08:16,529 going on ? And I tell the story often 221 00:08:16,529 --> 00:08:16,119 it's , it's always worth repeating , 222 00:08:16,130 --> 00:08:18,186 but , you know , uh Janelle mccauley 223 00:08:18,186 --> 00:08:20,352 and , and Chief Brinkley were there um 224 00:08:20,352 --> 00:08:23,700 to help us try to understand , you know , 225 00:08:23,709 --> 00:08:26,179 the , the impacts and how do we at the 226 00:08:26,190 --> 00:08:28,412 time we were talking about resilience . 227 00:08:28,529 --> 00:08:30,473 But you know , this is where Chief 228 00:08:30,473 --> 00:08:32,473 Brinkley challenged me if , if this 229 00:08:32,473 --> 00:08:34,696 means enough to you , General Menahan , 230 00:08:34,696 --> 00:08:36,807 then make a mental health appointment 231 00:08:36,807 --> 00:08:40,409 and put it on your calendar . So we did 232 00:08:40,809 --> 00:08:44,190 uh and we tweeted it and I went to my 233 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,450 first mental health appointment and the 234 00:08:46,460 --> 00:08:48,293 team tried to shield me from the 235 00:08:48,293 --> 00:08:50,460 awkwardness of that . God bless them , 236 00:08:50,460 --> 00:08:52,516 not , not nefarious , but you know , 237 00:08:52,516 --> 00:08:55,020 hey , you wanna pick you up , drive you 238 00:08:55,030 --> 00:08:58,580 around back , special you in . And I 239 00:08:58,590 --> 00:09:00,701 said , no , I'm gonna park up front , 240 00:09:00,701 --> 00:09:02,923 walk in the main elevator , walk in the 241 00:09:02,923 --> 00:09:05,034 main entrance to the elevator , go up 242 00:09:05,034 --> 00:09:04,830 to that room and I'm gonna sit there as 243 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,896 Mike Mna , you know , at the time it 244 00:09:06,896 --> 00:09:09,007 was COVID , you know , so people were 245 00:09:09,007 --> 00:09:11,229 wearing masks . Uh There were people in 246 00:09:11,229 --> 00:09:13,340 that waiting room that had uh every , 247 00:09:13,340 --> 00:09:15,562 everybody like me , you know , who just 248 00:09:15,562 --> 00:09:17,896 had a mask on and you know , here it is , 249 00:09:17,896 --> 00:09:19,951 here's the rank , here's the name to 250 00:09:19,951 --> 00:09:23,659 people that had completely , uh you 251 00:09:23,669 --> 00:09:25,836 know , made themselves anonymous , you 252 00:09:25,836 --> 00:09:28,113 know , so in civilian clothes , hoodie , 253 00:09:28,113 --> 00:09:31,609 sunglasses , mask and you know , so 254 00:09:31,619 --> 00:09:33,675 here we all are and I got everything 255 00:09:33,675 --> 00:09:36,690 from the side eye uh to the , hey 256 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:38,811 General Manahan , you know , what are 257 00:09:38,811 --> 00:09:41,700 you doing here ? And uh , and you know , 258 00:09:41,710 --> 00:09:44,043 that was a necessary part of my journey . 259 00:09:44,043 --> 00:09:45,988 I'll tie it back to my previous um 260 00:09:45,988 --> 00:09:48,154 experiences . But you know , to sit in 261 00:09:48,154 --> 00:09:50,266 that room to do the computer uptake , 262 00:09:50,266 --> 00:09:52,432 to hand it off to the , you know , the 263 00:09:52,432 --> 00:09:54,654 wonderful staff there to go back and do 264 00:09:54,654 --> 00:09:56,877 a verbal uptake and then to finally get 265 00:09:56,877 --> 00:09:58,988 back to , you know , the professional 266 00:09:58,988 --> 00:10:01,210 that , you know , is gonna , you know , 267 00:10:01,210 --> 00:10:03,210 have a , a very needed conversation 268 00:10:03,210 --> 00:10:05,321 with you uh was incredibly powerful . 269 00:10:05,321 --> 00:10:07,429 The tie back is , you know , I've 270 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,820 commanded many times and I've commanded , 271 00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:12,750 you know , uh thousands and thousands 272 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,150 of airmen , but I never once understood 273 00:10:15,159 --> 00:10:17,381 the , the depth of what it really means 274 00:10:17,381 --> 00:10:19,437 to stand up and ask for help to , to 275 00:10:19,437 --> 00:10:22,210 bust through that stigma barrier and 276 00:10:22,219 --> 00:10:25,429 really say , I want to talk to somebody , 277 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,059 you know , whether it's the chaplain or 278 00:10:28,369 --> 00:10:30,219 the uh or , you know , the 279 00:10:30,229 --> 00:10:32,396 professionals at mental health or , or 280 00:10:32,396 --> 00:10:34,173 a friend , a first sergeant , a 281 00:10:34,173 --> 00:10:36,539 commander , uh senior enlisted advisor 282 00:10:36,549 --> 00:10:38,827 the whole nine yards . You know , it's , 283 00:10:38,827 --> 00:10:41,049 it , it's one thing to say , you know , 284 00:10:41,049 --> 00:10:43,271 if you need help , say something , it's 285 00:10:43,271 --> 00:10:45,216 a sign of strength , not a sign of 286 00:10:45,216 --> 00:10:47,160 weakness , but until you take that 287 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,327 journey , until you do that , you have 288 00:10:49,327 --> 00:10:51,438 no idea the amount of courage and the 289 00:10:51,438 --> 00:10:53,438 amount of strength it takes to plow 290 00:10:53,438 --> 00:10:55,549 through all that , all that barrier . 291 00:10:55,549 --> 00:10:57,809 And , and so , you know , it really 292 00:10:57,820 --> 00:11:01,770 caged for me , the the road ahead . You 293 00:11:01,780 --> 00:11:04,058 know , what does it take to ? You know , 294 00:11:04,058 --> 00:11:06,224 we , we always say , right , eliminate 295 00:11:06,224 --> 00:11:08,169 stigma , lower barriers , increase 296 00:11:08,169 --> 00:11:10,169 access and options . And you know , 297 00:11:10,169 --> 00:11:12,169 it's a very delicate thing . It's a 298 00:11:12,169 --> 00:11:14,224 very delicate thing . You know , you 299 00:11:14,224 --> 00:11:16,113 could have one person say a snide 300 00:11:16,113 --> 00:11:18,058 comment about someone that stepped 301 00:11:18,058 --> 00:11:20,280 forward and that will shut down anybody 302 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,336 else in that flight and that shift . 303 00:11:22,336 --> 00:11:24,058 And um , you know , so this is 304 00:11:24,058 --> 00:11:25,891 something that we've got to keep 305 00:11:25,891 --> 00:11:25,789 pressing on . But , you know , I guess 306 00:11:25,799 --> 00:11:28,099 the , the end statement I would make on 307 00:11:28,109 --> 00:11:30,609 on this would be what I thought I was 308 00:11:30,619 --> 00:11:33,070 doing for airman . I learned I was 309 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:34,969 doing for myself too . I mean , I 310 00:11:34,969 --> 00:11:37,136 didn't know that . And , and so that's 311 00:11:37,136 --> 00:11:39,080 that where that picture snaps into 312 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,080 focus is when you're sitting down , 313 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,136 talking to professional and they ask 314 00:11:43,136 --> 00:11:45,358 you a question like , have you ever had 315 00:11:45,358 --> 00:11:47,580 trauma in your life ? And you go , no . 316 00:11:47,580 --> 00:11:49,580 And then they say , have you seen a 317 00:11:49,580 --> 00:11:51,691 dead body ? Well , yes , I have , you 318 00:11:51,691 --> 00:11:53,969 know , uh you and I fly C one thirties , 319 00:11:53,969 --> 00:11:53,549 we've been deployed a lot . I don't 320 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,392 want to say I've personally done 321 00:11:55,392 --> 00:11:57,115 hundreds , but my squadron has 322 00:11:57,115 --> 00:11:59,226 airlifted hundreds of American Angels 323 00:11:59,226 --> 00:12:02,780 home and um or initiated their journey 324 00:12:02,789 --> 00:12:05,409 home and you know , the weight of that , 325 00:12:05,419 --> 00:12:08,159 the weight of the , the responsibility 326 00:12:08,169 --> 00:12:10,650 of combat , the packing , the , the , 327 00:12:10,659 --> 00:12:12,881 the sailor in ice though . What does it 328 00:12:12,881 --> 00:12:14,992 mean to be in the Pentagon and not be 329 00:12:14,992 --> 00:12:17,215 able to sleep for two weeks because you 330 00:12:17,215 --> 00:12:20,969 feel guilty um about surviving . Um 331 00:12:20,979 --> 00:12:24,020 What you know , all those things all of 332 00:12:24,030 --> 00:12:27,570 a sudden have a personal context and 333 00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:29,636 you know , come to life and then you 334 00:12:29,636 --> 00:12:31,820 kind of go back and you go , well , 335 00:12:31,830 --> 00:12:33,441 maybe we could have had this 336 00:12:33,441 --> 00:12:35,552 conversation a lot earlier , maybe we 337 00:12:35,552 --> 00:12:37,552 could have had this a while ago . I 338 00:12:37,552 --> 00:12:37,219 think there's a few key points that I 339 00:12:37,229 --> 00:12:39,396 would love to highlight and dig into a 340 00:12:39,396 --> 00:12:41,562 little bit more . You talked about the 341 00:12:41,562 --> 00:12:44,010 necessary journey of taking that 342 00:12:44,020 --> 00:12:46,169 elevator sitting in that waiting room 343 00:12:46,179 --> 00:12:50,030 being transparent in it . And I think 344 00:12:50,119 --> 00:12:52,286 from context , it sounds like you were 345 00:12:52,286 --> 00:12:54,341 feeling a , as a general , as a four 346 00:12:54,341 --> 00:12:56,349 star with vast responsibility , 347 00:12:56,359 --> 00:12:58,719 incredible respect . A long and and 348 00:12:58,729 --> 00:13:01,109 very respectable career behind you . 349 00:13:01,119 --> 00:13:03,750 You were still feeling that weight of 350 00:13:04,299 --> 00:13:07,059 uh they see me here . Are they 351 00:13:07,070 --> 00:13:09,292 wondering why I'm here ? What are other 352 00:13:09,292 --> 00:13:11,459 people thinking about it ? How is this 353 00:13:11,459 --> 00:13:13,570 going to impact me ? That's something 354 00:13:13,570 --> 00:13:15,792 that so many of our airmen carry . It's 355 00:13:15,792 --> 00:13:17,959 something that I've experienced myself 356 00:13:17,959 --> 00:13:19,848 even being a massive advocate for 357 00:13:19,848 --> 00:13:21,792 mental health and , and walking my 358 00:13:21,792 --> 00:13:21,510 airmen through and making sure they , 359 00:13:21,604 --> 00:13:25,025 the help they need until you take that 360 00:13:25,034 --> 00:13:27,224 process yourself . It's very hard to 361 00:13:27,234 --> 00:13:30,005 understand what that feels like . And 362 00:13:30,015 --> 00:13:32,237 so did you experience that to that same 363 00:13:32,237 --> 00:13:34,815 extent , internalized stigma or even 364 00:13:34,825 --> 00:13:37,585 shame that might come with saying , oh , 365 00:13:37,755 --> 00:13:39,644 this is actually for me , this is 366 00:13:39,644 --> 00:13:41,699 something I need . Yes . I , I don't 367 00:13:41,699 --> 00:13:43,699 know if I would phrase it the exact 368 00:13:43,699 --> 00:13:45,922 same way . And , you know , this is the 369 00:13:45,922 --> 00:13:47,977 discovery learning that , that , you 370 00:13:47,977 --> 00:13:47,844 know , happened and continues . But , 371 00:13:48,195 --> 00:13:50,489 you know , when believe it or not , I'm 372 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,349 social media shy . OK . So just that 373 00:13:53,359 --> 00:13:56,369 tweet and the way it went , you know , 374 00:13:56,380 --> 00:13:58,547 the term is viral . I don't know if it 375 00:13:58,547 --> 00:14:00,559 counted as viral , but that was 376 00:14:00,570 --> 00:14:02,681 terrifying to me , you know , and I'm 377 00:14:02,681 --> 00:14:04,626 not good on social media because I 378 00:14:04,626 --> 00:14:06,514 don't like , you know , the , the 379 00:14:06,514 --> 00:14:09,289 replies aren't always healthy . Um And 380 00:14:09,299 --> 00:14:11,299 this gets to that what other people 381 00:14:11,299 --> 00:14:13,410 think part , you know , and certainly 382 00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:13,330 there was a lot of support . I don't 383 00:14:13,340 --> 00:14:15,340 want to say that there wasn't , but 384 00:14:15,340 --> 00:14:17,562 there's also a lot of rabbit holes in a 385 00:14:17,562 --> 00:14:19,784 lot of naysayers and a lot of skeptic , 386 00:14:19,784 --> 00:14:21,840 you know , people that uh you know , 387 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,896 take the time to be unhelpful . I'll 388 00:14:23,896 --> 00:14:25,951 say that . Um you know , so that was 389 00:14:25,951 --> 00:14:28,118 terrifying to me . I mean , that was , 390 00:14:28,118 --> 00:14:31,070 you know , comfy one day , not comfy 391 00:14:31,630 --> 00:14:34,479 the next minute and not comfy for a 392 00:14:34,489 --> 00:14:36,545 while , not that comfy for a while . 393 00:14:36,545 --> 00:14:38,545 You know , I , I describe it as the 394 00:14:38,545 --> 00:14:40,767 most , uh , you know , terrifying three 395 00:14:40,767 --> 00:14:42,989 days of my career , you know , before I 396 00:14:42,989 --> 00:14:45,156 got it before I got a handle on that . 397 00:14:45,270 --> 00:14:47,603 And then the same would be true of that , 398 00:14:47,603 --> 00:14:49,770 you know , is , is there's a , I think 399 00:14:49,770 --> 00:14:51,940 there's always a healthy and necessary 400 00:14:52,270 --> 00:14:54,270 voice in the back of your head that 401 00:14:54,270 --> 00:14:56,492 says , am I doing the right thing ? You 402 00:14:56,492 --> 00:14:58,548 know , I don't want to ever discount 403 00:14:58,548 --> 00:15:00,659 that voice because sometimes it saves 404 00:15:00,659 --> 00:15:00,510 us from doing things that are , that 405 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,700 are reckless . But , but , but we've 406 00:15:03,710 --> 00:15:06,150 got to distinguish between the voice 407 00:15:06,159 --> 00:15:09,690 that's saving you from yourself and the 408 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:11,811 voice that's worried about what other 409 00:15:11,811 --> 00:15:13,922 people think . Those are two separate 410 00:15:13,922 --> 00:15:16,033 voices and that I think at times they 411 00:15:16,033 --> 00:15:18,089 can sound like one . So how do you , 412 00:15:18,089 --> 00:15:20,144 how do you differentiate between the 413 00:15:20,144 --> 00:15:22,349 two and then how do you go forward on 414 00:15:22,359 --> 00:15:24,581 the , on the one that's concerned about 415 00:15:24,581 --> 00:15:26,803 what other people think ? Because , you 416 00:15:26,803 --> 00:15:28,803 know , the older I get , the more I 417 00:15:28,803 --> 00:15:30,859 don't care what other people think . 418 00:15:30,859 --> 00:15:33,026 And , you know , if I had to re rewind 419 00:15:33,026 --> 00:15:32,760 Mike Minahan , I might , I might go 420 00:15:32,770 --> 00:15:34,881 back to an earlier time and have that 421 00:15:34,881 --> 00:15:36,992 the courage to say that a lot earlier 422 00:15:36,992 --> 00:15:39,103 earlier in my life . But a lot of the 423 00:15:39,103 --> 00:15:40,937 resistance we have internally is 424 00:15:40,937 --> 00:15:43,048 actually in reaction to what we think 425 00:15:43,048 --> 00:15:45,270 other people might think of us . Ok . I 426 00:15:45,270 --> 00:15:47,492 want to applaud the courage it takes to 427 00:15:47,492 --> 00:15:49,820 walk in that entrance up right up that 428 00:15:49,830 --> 00:15:52,059 elevator , sit in that , that waiting 429 00:15:52,070 --> 00:15:54,190 room , take that uptake , go to the 430 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,200 back and have that conversation and 431 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,256 then , you know , maybe , you know , 432 00:15:58,256 --> 00:16:00,033 when you get to the back in the 433 00:16:00,033 --> 00:16:02,200 conversation , the weight of the world 434 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,256 comes off your shoulders . Yeah , it 435 00:16:04,256 --> 00:16:06,478 becomes a lot more benign . Right . And 436 00:16:06,478 --> 00:16:08,422 you're in the right place with the 437 00:16:08,422 --> 00:16:10,644 right resources and it , for some , for 438 00:16:10,644 --> 00:16:12,533 me , I know , especially I knew I 439 00:16:12,533 --> 00:16:14,756 needed care . I knew when I needed it . 440 00:16:14,756 --> 00:16:14,419 I wasn't in a location where we had 441 00:16:14,429 --> 00:16:16,151 access to mental health care . 442 00:16:16,151 --> 00:16:18,207 Unfortunately , so I had to wait , I 443 00:16:18,207 --> 00:16:20,040 had to wait until I could get to 444 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,207 somewhere where mental health care was 445 00:16:22,207 --> 00:16:21,619 available . So for me , it was like 446 00:16:21,630 --> 00:16:23,686 breathing again . It was like , ok , 447 00:16:23,809 --> 00:16:26,031 all right , we're back where we need to 448 00:16:26,031 --> 00:16:27,865 be and it's going to be ok . And 449 00:16:27,865 --> 00:16:30,087 there's a professional here who's going 450 00:16:30,087 --> 00:16:31,920 to help me work through and walk 451 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,142 through what the next steps look like . 452 00:16:34,142 --> 00:16:33,849 But I'm not white knuckling it . I'm 453 00:16:33,859 --> 00:16:35,900 not afraid . I don't feel like I'm 454 00:16:35,909 --> 00:16:39,429 about to lose that . Like last shred 455 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,273 where I'm holding on with all my 456 00:16:41,273 --> 00:16:43,496 strength to balance my life and balance 457 00:16:43,496 --> 00:16:45,162 what's happening and what I'm 458 00:16:45,162 --> 00:16:46,884 experiencing . Um There's this 459 00:16:46,884 --> 00:16:48,996 incredible relief but the bravery and 460 00:16:48,996 --> 00:16:50,996 the courage that it takes to get to 461 00:16:50,996 --> 00:16:53,162 that point is very high , which is why 462 00:16:53,162 --> 00:16:55,218 I think it's so incredibly important 463 00:16:55,218 --> 00:16:57,440 that we have people like yourself , sir 464 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,496 who are willing to talk about it and 465 00:16:59,496 --> 00:17:01,496 help bring that fear down . Because 466 00:17:01,496 --> 00:17:03,496 historically , the message has been 467 00:17:03,496 --> 00:17:05,551 those who need mental health care or 468 00:17:05,551 --> 00:17:07,718 those who need mental wellness support 469 00:17:07,718 --> 00:17:09,662 are somehow weaker or less than or 470 00:17:09,662 --> 00:17:11,718 broken as opposed to the recognition 471 00:17:11,718 --> 00:17:13,829 that , that these are individuals who 472 00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:16,290 have such incredible grit and tenacity 473 00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:18,729 and bravery that , that they're able to 474 00:17:18,739 --> 00:17:21,069 look within and recognize the limits of 475 00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:23,790 their own capacity and reach for help 476 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,199 when necessary versus waiting until 477 00:17:26,209 --> 00:17:28,153 they do break . And we do see that 478 00:17:28,153 --> 00:17:30,209 quite often with our airmen . Um One 479 00:17:30,209 --> 00:17:32,209 thing you mentioned , and one thing 480 00:17:32,209 --> 00:17:34,265 that I know I've experienced is that 481 00:17:34,265 --> 00:17:36,431 avoidance of care . Um where maybe you 482 00:17:36,431 --> 00:17:38,487 wait , you think , uh maybe I should 483 00:17:38,487 --> 00:17:40,653 talk to someone I can probably do this 484 00:17:40,653 --> 00:17:42,765 on my own . And the DH a study showed 485 00:17:42,765 --> 00:17:45,069 that that is very common for our airmen 486 00:17:45,079 --> 00:17:47,135 because they're afraid of what their 487 00:17:47,135 --> 00:17:49,301 commanders might think . It might hurt 488 00:17:49,301 --> 00:17:51,412 their promotion , it might hurt their 489 00:17:51,412 --> 00:17:50,939 ability to be a first sergeant . 490 00:17:51,189 --> 00:17:53,356 They're worried about continuing to be 491 00:17:53,356 --> 00:17:55,245 able to do their job . Um whether 492 00:17:55,245 --> 00:17:57,569 that's a flight , physical or on 493 00:17:57,579 --> 00:17:59,729 controlling duty , all of these 494 00:17:59,739 --> 00:18:01,572 barriers that they have . And so 495 00:18:01,572 --> 00:18:03,683 they're choosing to wait . Um And the 496 00:18:03,683 --> 00:18:05,795 research that came out last fall that 497 00:18:05,795 --> 00:18:08,017 we really capitalized on showcased that 498 00:18:08,017 --> 00:18:09,890 this was a big issue in aviation 499 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:11,622 specifically , but it actually 500 00:18:11,622 --> 00:18:13,733 translates to all of our special duty 501 00:18:13,733 --> 00:18:15,844 airmen , whether it's arming status , 502 00:18:15,844 --> 00:18:17,956 flight status or controlling status , 503 00:18:17,956 --> 00:18:20,790 take your pick . And so I would really 504 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,160 like to take a look at why it was so 505 00:18:24,170 --> 00:18:26,281 important to you to get after some of 506 00:18:26,290 --> 00:18:28,234 the changes that the team has been 507 00:18:28,234 --> 00:18:29,790 working for the last year , 508 00:18:29,790 --> 00:18:32,160 specifically in this area of avoidance . 509 00:18:32,170 --> 00:18:33,892 How do we reduce the amount of 510 00:18:33,892 --> 00:18:36,560 avoidance that our , our airmen are 511 00:18:36,569 --> 00:18:38,736 engaging in ? And how do we lower that 512 00:18:38,736 --> 00:18:40,958 barrier to care so that they can go get 513 00:18:40,958 --> 00:18:43,013 the help they need and not be afraid 514 00:18:43,013 --> 00:18:45,180 that it's gonna cost them their job so 515 00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:47,402 that they can go get the help they need 516 00:18:47,402 --> 00:18:47,400 and not be afraid that they're not 517 00:18:47,410 --> 00:18:50,229 gonna be able to deploy anymore . Um As 518 00:18:50,239 --> 00:18:52,350 we've gone on this journey together , 519 00:18:52,350 --> 00:18:54,406 we've consistently said that that an 520 00:18:54,406 --> 00:18:56,628 airman who's been through the help that 521 00:18:56,628 --> 00:18:58,683 they need and has developed robust , 522 00:18:58,683 --> 00:19:00,906 healthy , safe coping mechanisms is the 523 00:19:00,906 --> 00:19:03,072 most combat ready airmen we can have . 524 00:19:03,072 --> 00:19:05,072 How do we get them there without it 525 00:19:05,072 --> 00:19:07,183 impacting their job ? And that's what 526 00:19:07,183 --> 00:19:06,989 the Warrior mental health working group 527 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,111 has been focused on . And the changes 528 00:19:09,111 --> 00:19:11,167 that came out earlier this year with 529 00:19:11,167 --> 00:19:13,111 the 60 day treatment window before 530 00:19:13,111 --> 00:19:15,222 waiver requirement and the removal of 531 00:19:15,222 --> 00:19:18,540 those mandatory downtime in favor of a 532 00:19:18,550 --> 00:19:20,606 recommended downtime that gives your 533 00:19:20,606 --> 00:19:22,717 flight surgeon and your mental health 534 00:19:22,717 --> 00:19:24,883 provider the ability to determine when 535 00:19:24,883 --> 00:19:26,994 you're ready to go back as opposed to 536 00:19:26,994 --> 00:19:29,217 something arbitrary . Why were those so 537 00:19:29,217 --> 00:19:30,994 important to you from a command 538 00:19:30,994 --> 00:19:33,161 perspective and then to you personally 539 00:19:33,161 --> 00:19:35,106 as an aviator . Ok , look , you're 540 00:19:35,106 --> 00:19:37,328 gonna have to help me with the question 541 00:19:37,328 --> 00:19:36,479 because I wanna , I wanna hit a few 542 00:19:36,489 --> 00:19:38,656 things in response to that . The first 543 00:19:38,656 --> 00:19:42,430 thing I would say is the , the response 544 00:19:42,439 --> 00:19:46,280 to that tweet . You , you sent me an 545 00:19:46,290 --> 00:19:49,689 email . Um I got hundreds of emails 546 00:19:50,050 --> 00:19:53,890 and I got everything from uh from 547 00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:56,067 every rank . So I'm just telling you , 548 00:19:56,170 --> 00:19:58,880 you know , this is not a certain part 549 00:19:58,890 --> 00:20:02,300 or a very few number of people that 550 00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:04,477 were appreciative of trying to set the 551 00:20:04,477 --> 00:20:06,810 environment where you can make that 552 00:20:06,819 --> 00:20:09,089 stigma go away and make that approach 553 00:20:09,099 --> 00:20:11,930 for help um happen . So , you know , I 554 00:20:11,939 --> 00:20:14,217 want to be very clear on that . I mean , 555 00:20:14,217 --> 00:20:16,217 it's still to this day I get people 556 00:20:16,217 --> 00:20:18,272 come up to me that say thank you for 557 00:20:18,272 --> 00:20:20,272 that . I mean , it's not about me , 558 00:20:20,272 --> 00:20:22,495 this is about the environment , this is 559 00:20:22,495 --> 00:20:24,495 about the journey we're all on . Uh 560 00:20:24,495 --> 00:20:27,339 even even at , at Lowe's when I was 561 00:20:27,349 --> 00:20:29,238 handing my military ID to get the 562 00:20:29,238 --> 00:20:31,405 discount . She , you know , a civilian 563 00:20:31,405 --> 00:20:33,460 looked at it and goes , hey , you're 564 00:20:33,460 --> 00:20:35,460 the guy that did that tweet and she 565 00:20:35,460 --> 00:20:37,760 goes , if , if you'd have been in when 566 00:20:37,770 --> 00:20:39,826 I was in , I'd still be in uniform , 567 00:20:40,459 --> 00:20:43,280 not about Mike Minahan , but about she 568 00:20:43,290 --> 00:20:45,234 didn't have the confidence to move 569 00:20:45,234 --> 00:20:47,457 forward . So I want , I wanna , I wanna 570 00:20:47,457 --> 00:20:49,679 be clear that from all services and all 571 00:20:49,679 --> 00:20:51,679 ranks , you know there wasn't a AAA 572 00:20:51,679 --> 00:20:55,239 resounding uh reaction to 573 00:20:55,410 --> 00:20:57,743 exactly what you're saying is how do we , 574 00:20:57,743 --> 00:21:00,140 how do we break down that barrier ? Um 575 00:21:00,390 --> 00:21:04,160 And , and move forward for the journey 576 00:21:04,170 --> 00:21:06,680 required . The hardest thing has 577 00:21:06,689 --> 00:21:08,689 already been done by the individual 578 00:21:08,689 --> 00:21:10,760 that's thinking about seeking help . 579 00:21:10,949 --> 00:21:13,920 They've already carried the burden by 580 00:21:13,930 --> 00:21:16,560 themselves . The hardest part has been 581 00:21:16,569 --> 00:21:18,719 done . It's hard to think about it . 582 00:21:18,729 --> 00:21:20,951 That term . They , they survived , they 583 00:21:20,951 --> 00:21:23,300 have survived and , and continue to 584 00:21:23,310 --> 00:21:25,780 survive and carry , you know , the 585 00:21:25,790 --> 00:21:28,709 weight of whatever it is . Um And you 586 00:21:28,719 --> 00:21:30,550 see this on , in social media , 587 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,290 especially when there's a suicide . Um 588 00:21:33,469 --> 00:21:35,525 You'll on linkedin recently , you'll 589 00:21:35,525 --> 00:21:37,469 see these , you know , magnificent 590 00:21:37,469 --> 00:21:40,339 warriors that did amazingly brave , 591 00:21:40,349 --> 00:21:42,516 courageous things for this country and 592 00:21:42,516 --> 00:21:44,479 have the admiration and respect of 593 00:21:44,489 --> 00:21:47,000 their peers and then they lose a fight 594 00:21:47,010 --> 00:21:49,290 with , with themselves and , and we 595 00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:51,244 hear all about their bravery , all 596 00:21:51,244 --> 00:21:53,300 about their tenacity . And you think 597 00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:55,300 about how long that person survived 598 00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:57,739 shouldering that burden by themselves . 599 00:21:58,469 --> 00:22:01,969 And that's the hardest part . So , you 600 00:22:01,979 --> 00:22:04,900 know , how do we convince create 601 00:22:05,619 --> 00:22:08,750 uh propagate , do all the positive 602 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,704 things to make , to make , to help 603 00:22:10,704 --> 00:22:12,649 people understand that the hardest 604 00:22:12,649 --> 00:22:14,760 part's been done . And even though it 605 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,760 seems harder when you break through 606 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,871 that final barrier , the the goodness 607 00:22:18,871 --> 00:22:21,038 happens . And my experience uh in that 608 00:22:21,038 --> 00:22:23,093 back room was there's a professional 609 00:22:23,099 --> 00:22:25,155 that knows how to deal with people . 610 00:22:25,155 --> 00:22:27,770 Like me , it's like a doctor . You know , 611 00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:30,439 we all have people in our lives that we 612 00:22:30,449 --> 00:22:32,790 connect with very easily , you know , 613 00:22:33,010 --> 00:22:35,010 but , you know , a mom , a wife , a 614 00:22:35,010 --> 00:22:37,430 spouse , uh , a parent , you know , uh , 615 00:22:37,439 --> 00:22:40,599 a , a close friend that has a way to 616 00:22:40,609 --> 00:22:44,420 ask questions and interact , um , in a 617 00:22:44,430 --> 00:22:46,530 way that , that generally solves 618 00:22:46,540 --> 00:22:48,839 problems and make things better . But , 619 00:22:49,849 --> 00:22:51,793 you know , there are cases in , in 620 00:22:51,793 --> 00:22:54,390 certain ways that even that's not 621 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,729 enough and then you've got these pros 622 00:22:57,739 --> 00:23:00,069 that know , that are the right people . 623 00:23:00,140 --> 00:23:02,770 And , um , you know , certainly the in 624 00:23:02,930 --> 00:23:05,170 Flax , certainly , uh , the chaplain , 625 00:23:05,180 --> 00:23:07,402 certainly our mental health providers , 626 00:23:07,402 --> 00:23:09,599 all that if we could just get to them 627 00:23:10,030 --> 00:23:12,530 and , and have everybody have that 628 00:23:12,540 --> 00:23:15,050 epiphany that I had that the weight is , 629 00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:17,560 you know , oh , is this all it is , is 630 00:23:17,569 --> 00:23:19,810 a , is a conversation that helps me 631 00:23:19,819 --> 00:23:22,739 understand my past as it relates to my 632 00:23:22,750 --> 00:23:25,550 now and then can , can build a path to 633 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,170 a future that doesn't have the triggers 634 00:23:28,180 --> 00:23:30,347 that doesn't have the sleepless nights 635 00:23:30,347 --> 00:23:32,513 that , that helps , you know , develop 636 00:23:32,513 --> 00:23:35,520 the skills , uh , that can , you know , 637 00:23:35,530 --> 00:23:38,319 bear this , bear the weight of , of , 638 00:23:38,329 --> 00:23:40,520 of what we do . And so I think that , 639 00:23:40,959 --> 00:23:43,650 um , you know , I think that that's 640 00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:45,771 worth saying , you know , the hardest 641 00:23:45,771 --> 00:23:48,530 part has already been done and it 642 00:23:48,540 --> 00:23:50,651 doesn't mean that there won't be more 643 00:23:50,651 --> 00:23:52,651 challenges and it doesn't mean that 644 00:23:52,651 --> 00:23:54,762 everything be perfect after the first 645 00:23:54,762 --> 00:23:56,984 visit . But there I found relief in the 646 00:23:56,984 --> 00:23:59,207 process , even on the first step of the 647 00:23:59,207 --> 00:24:01,429 process . So I asked for help to get me 648 00:24:01,429 --> 00:24:03,429 back on task of this question . But 649 00:24:03,429 --> 00:24:05,429 that was the first two . The second 650 00:24:05,429 --> 00:24:07,373 half is one of the things that you 651 00:24:07,373 --> 00:24:09,469 focused on was in light of , of that 652 00:24:09,609 --> 00:24:12,670 goal of getting airmen across the , the 653 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,569 line to reaching out , to feeling 654 00:24:14,569 --> 00:24:16,624 comfortable , to feeling confident . 655 00:24:16,624 --> 00:24:18,736 When we looked at the data , a lot of 656 00:24:18,736 --> 00:24:18,660 the barriers that they were 657 00:24:18,670 --> 00:24:21,699 experiencing really was I'm gonna lose 658 00:24:21,709 --> 00:24:23,709 my job . I'm gonna lose my security 659 00:24:23,709 --> 00:24:26,042 clearance . I'm not gonna be deployable . 660 00:24:26,042 --> 00:24:28,376 I'm not gonna be able to ever fly again . 661 00:24:28,376 --> 00:24:30,598 I'm not gonna be able to go on the road 662 00:24:30,598 --> 00:24:32,820 again . I won't be armed again . All of 663 00:24:32,820 --> 00:24:34,820 these concerns about duty and about 664 00:24:34,820 --> 00:24:36,931 being able to do their job , which is 665 00:24:36,931 --> 00:24:38,765 something that really matters as 666 00:24:38,765 --> 00:24:40,931 warriors as airmen . This is something 667 00:24:40,931 --> 00:24:43,098 that is a big part of who we are . And 668 00:24:43,098 --> 00:24:45,265 so that was something that the team at 669 00:24:45,265 --> 00:24:47,376 your direction took a look at early . 670 00:24:47,376 --> 00:24:49,209 Was , is there a way that we can 671 00:24:49,209 --> 00:24:51,949 provide relief from that concern and do 672 00:24:51,959 --> 00:24:54,199 it by maybe lowering that barrier by 673 00:24:54,209 --> 00:24:56,376 giving people an option to go get care 674 00:24:56,376 --> 00:24:58,542 really early and get right back to job 675 00:24:58,542 --> 00:25:01,270 in it um or go get care and as soon as 676 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,447 they're ready , get back to jobbing it 677 00:25:03,447 --> 00:25:05,280 as opposed to the , the previous 678 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,502 regulations , which required a bit more 679 00:25:07,502 --> 00:25:09,724 downtime and a bit more what was called 680 00:25:09,724 --> 00:25:11,836 stabilization periods before you were 681 00:25:11,836 --> 00:25:13,947 allowed to go back to duty . Yeah , I 682 00:25:13,947 --> 00:25:16,058 think this is the curse of your email 683 00:25:16,058 --> 00:25:18,280 to me where , you know , she emailed me 684 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,447 for the record and then I hired her uh 685 00:25:20,447 --> 00:25:22,558 into the front office team here to do 686 00:25:22,558 --> 00:25:24,613 just this , which was to look at the 687 00:25:24,613 --> 00:25:28,489 guidelines , um the mechanisms as they 688 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:31,859 existed and say , how can we make data 689 00:25:31,869 --> 00:25:34,869 form decisions and , and , and uh get , 690 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,329 get data formed analysis on what should 691 00:25:38,339 --> 00:25:40,561 be the way forward . And you and I both 692 00:25:40,561 --> 00:25:42,672 read a book called Men Under Stress . 693 00:25:42,672 --> 00:25:45,540 Um That was a book written in 1945 by 694 00:25:45,550 --> 00:25:48,040 two flight surgeons that visited uh 695 00:25:48,050 --> 00:25:50,640 combat units in the army Air Corps 696 00:25:50,650 --> 00:25:52,706 during world war two and just try to 697 00:25:52,706 --> 00:25:55,239 distinguish between a unit that was 698 00:25:55,250 --> 00:25:57,194 effective in combat and units that 699 00:25:57,194 --> 00:25:59,250 weren't . And it , it boiled down to 700 00:25:59,250 --> 00:26:01,417 leadership and , and basically command 701 00:26:01,417 --> 00:26:03,361 climate and you know , the climate 702 00:26:03,361 --> 00:26:05,528 where uh the team or the family or the 703 00:26:05,528 --> 00:26:08,550 unit , the squadron could understand 704 00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:10,892 this person needs a break . This person 705 00:26:10,892 --> 00:26:13,114 needs a little more than a break . This 706 00:26:13,114 --> 00:26:15,059 person's just good because they're 707 00:26:15,059 --> 00:26:17,114 going undergoing horrific , horrific 708 00:26:17,114 --> 00:26:19,281 stress , uh combat stress as they , as 709 00:26:19,281 --> 00:26:21,479 they do it . And how do we , how do we 710 00:26:21,489 --> 00:26:24,670 perhaps look at some policy and 711 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,847 guidelines that has existed for a very 712 00:26:26,847 --> 00:26:29,680 long time but just wasn't database . So 713 00:26:29,689 --> 00:26:31,967 I think you and I would both agree for , 714 00:26:31,967 --> 00:26:33,911 for the significant issues , those 715 00:26:33,911 --> 00:26:35,967 things remain in place , but for the 716 00:26:35,967 --> 00:26:38,800 person that is wondering , and the 717 00:26:38,810 --> 00:26:41,300 person that is trying to generate the 718 00:26:41,310 --> 00:26:44,209 courage , um , that there is now , uh , 719 00:26:44,229 --> 00:26:47,459 guidelines that allow for , uh , you 720 00:26:47,469 --> 00:26:50,180 know , an early entry into the process 721 00:26:50,189 --> 00:26:53,050 that has no penalty . You know , that 722 00:26:53,060 --> 00:26:55,319 isn't encumbered by a mandatory cool 723 00:26:55,329 --> 00:26:57,780 off period . Um , that isn't encumbered 724 00:26:57,790 --> 00:27:00,579 by , uh , uh , uh , a regulation 725 00:27:00,589 --> 00:27:02,829 written decades ago that wasn't data 726 00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:06,020 informed and didn't have the grand 727 00:27:06,030 --> 00:27:08,141 picture in mind . And so I think that 728 00:27:08,141 --> 00:27:10,363 we've created and if you created this , 729 00:27:10,363 --> 00:27:12,609 not me , you , you and your team , uh , 730 00:27:12,619 --> 00:27:14,730 and I know that you're gonna blame it 731 00:27:14,730 --> 00:27:16,730 on the team and you're right , it's 732 00:27:16,730 --> 00:27:18,786 their fault . Uh , you know , really 733 00:27:18,786 --> 00:27:20,508 moved all the services forward 734 00:27:20,508 --> 00:27:22,730 significantly here . Now , we have data 735 00:27:22,730 --> 00:27:25,619 based , uh , guidelines that , that , 736 00:27:25,630 --> 00:27:27,686 that are stripping away the barriers 737 00:27:27,686 --> 00:27:29,908 that used to exist that don't come with 738 00:27:29,908 --> 00:27:32,979 a penalty just for asking for help that 739 00:27:32,989 --> 00:27:35,920 have , uh , the ability for someone to 740 00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:38,439 go in and get right back to duty or to 741 00:27:38,449 --> 00:27:40,616 go in , get the care they need and get 742 00:27:40,616 --> 00:27:42,838 right back to duty . And what that does 743 00:27:42,838 --> 00:27:44,949 is it creates confidence in the whole 744 00:27:44,949 --> 00:27:46,838 system , the whole enterprise and 745 00:27:46,838 --> 00:27:49,359 instead of an airman or any joint 746 00:27:49,369 --> 00:27:51,425 member looking at someone that asked 747 00:27:51,425 --> 00:27:53,536 for help and saying , well , if I ask 748 00:27:53,536 --> 00:27:55,702 for help , I'm now gonna be out of the 749 00:27:55,702 --> 00:27:57,758 game for six months minimum and have 750 00:27:57,758 --> 00:27:59,869 all of my things affected my security 751 00:27:59,869 --> 00:28:02,091 clearance , my flight pay , uh , all of 752 00:28:02,091 --> 00:28:04,258 the things that come with being in the 753 00:28:04,258 --> 00:28:06,591 air force affected . Now , they can say , 754 00:28:06,591 --> 00:28:08,647 hey , that person got , got in , got 755 00:28:08,647 --> 00:28:10,869 out and is right back in the game . And 756 00:28:10,869 --> 00:28:10,670 now I'm generating confidence in that . 757 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,847 And so , you know , I don't think this 758 00:28:12,847 --> 00:28:14,958 is a short endeavor . I think that we 759 00:28:14,958 --> 00:28:16,902 are on a long journey here and one 760 00:28:16,902 --> 00:28:19,124 journey that never ends . And we've got 761 00:28:19,124 --> 00:28:22,489 to create an atmosphere where you are 762 00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:24,339 not just rewarded personally and 763 00:28:24,349 --> 00:28:27,530 professionally , but you are looked up 764 00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:29,709 upon for having stepped forward and 765 00:28:29,719 --> 00:28:32,000 asked for help . Uh This is the hardest 766 00:28:32,010 --> 00:28:34,177 part of the conversation for me . We , 767 00:28:34,177 --> 00:28:36,343 we know what the negative outcomes are 768 00:28:36,343 --> 00:28:38,399 and they're horrific and the numbers 769 00:28:38,399 --> 00:28:41,160 are horrific and the numbers increase 770 00:28:41,459 --> 00:28:45,449 every week . Um And we see , uh , 771 00:28:45,469 --> 00:28:48,099 we see that negative side and it has an 772 00:28:48,109 --> 00:28:50,900 enormous weight on me personally and , 773 00:28:50,910 --> 00:28:53,739 and us as an air force professionally 774 00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:56,760 and , uh , and we've got to do 775 00:28:56,770 --> 00:28:59,103 everything in our power to prevent that . 776 00:28:59,103 --> 00:29:01,159 It doesn't mean we'll prevent them . 777 00:29:01,159 --> 00:29:03,103 All . This is a human endeavor and 778 00:29:03,103 --> 00:29:05,048 humans aren't perfect . You can do 779 00:29:05,048 --> 00:29:04,420 everything right and still have a 780 00:29:04,430 --> 00:29:06,160 negative outcome . You can do 781 00:29:06,170 --> 00:29:08,226 everything wrong and have a positive 782 00:29:08,226 --> 00:29:10,109 outcome . But how do we set the 783 00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:13,800 conditions where we , uh where we 784 00:29:13,810 --> 00:29:16,089 line up that most ? Every that , that 785 00:29:16,099 --> 00:29:18,321 the majority is gonna have a positive , 786 00:29:18,321 --> 00:29:20,543 positive outcome . The majority that go 787 00:29:20,543 --> 00:29:22,766 in for help are gonna just need a quick 788 00:29:22,766 --> 00:29:24,932 tune up and they're back on the line . 789 00:29:24,932 --> 00:29:27,043 Yeah . How do we set those conditions 790 00:29:27,043 --> 00:29:29,266 so that we begin a legacy and a culture 791 00:29:29,266 --> 00:29:31,266 of early help seeking versus health 792 00:29:31,266 --> 00:29:33,432 care avoidance . Like you hit the nail 793 00:29:33,432 --> 00:29:35,710 on the head . It's not a quick journey . 794 00:29:35,710 --> 00:29:35,010 It's not going to be something that's 795 00:29:35,020 --> 00:29:37,209 solved overnight . It's going to take 796 00:29:37,219 --> 00:29:39,910 as many brave airmen as possible , 797 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,087 stepping up getting the help they need 798 00:29:42,087 --> 00:29:44,309 and continuing to do the job and do the 799 00:29:44,309 --> 00:29:46,309 work . And then being that advocate 800 00:29:46,309 --> 00:29:48,198 within their units , within their 801 00:29:48,198 --> 00:29:50,410 culture to say I'm still here and I'm 802 00:29:50,420 --> 00:29:52,531 doing it and here's how it's impacted 803 00:29:52,531 --> 00:29:54,753 my life . It's gonna take those leaders 804 00:29:54,753 --> 00:29:56,920 who have the bravery to go through the 805 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,087 process themselves , one for their own 806 00:29:59,087 --> 00:29:58,780 health and wellness . But secondly , so 807 00:29:58,790 --> 00:30:00,846 they can better support their airmen 808 00:30:00,846 --> 00:30:03,012 and understand what it feels like what 809 00:30:03,012 --> 00:30:05,234 the impact to them might be and be able 810 00:30:05,234 --> 00:30:07,457 to say with credibility , we're in your 811 00:30:07,457 --> 00:30:09,679 corner , we understand and that pathway 812 00:30:09,679 --> 00:30:11,846 to , to a quick return to duty so that 813 00:30:11,846 --> 00:30:13,957 there isn't this fear , you know , in 814 00:30:13,957 --> 00:30:16,179 my case , I was ready to return to duty 815 00:30:16,179 --> 00:30:18,920 within 60 days of , of starting my 816 00:30:18,930 --> 00:30:21,910 trauma care 60 to 90 days . Um but that 817 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,976 was under the old regulations . So I 818 00:30:23,976 --> 00:30:26,198 still had an additional six months that 819 00:30:26,198 --> 00:30:28,087 I would have had to wait for that 820 00:30:28,087 --> 00:30:30,420 waiver to go through as opposed to when , 821 00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:32,531 you know , when my doctors are thumbs 822 00:30:32,531 --> 00:30:34,698 up , you're good to go . I feel good . 823 00:30:34,698 --> 00:30:36,920 I'm sleeping . You , you know , you say 824 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:36,900 I'm good . Let's let's put the waiver 825 00:30:36,910 --> 00:30:38,743 through , let's see if I can get 826 00:30:38,743 --> 00:30:41,077 approval to go back . We couldn't do it . 827 00:30:41,077 --> 00:30:43,132 We had to keep waiting . Um And then 828 00:30:43,132 --> 00:30:45,299 that time period drags on a lot of our 829 00:30:45,299 --> 00:30:47,466 airmen's mental wellness honestly , as 830 00:30:47,466 --> 00:30:49,521 they , as they kind of fight through 831 00:30:49,521 --> 00:30:51,880 that challenge of OK , I went and I did 832 00:30:51,890 --> 00:30:55,189 the thing and now I'm waiting to get 833 00:30:55,199 --> 00:30:57,199 back to duty . So I think there's a 834 00:30:57,199 --> 00:30:59,255 huge aspect of , of that expeditious 835 00:30:59,255 --> 00:31:01,477 return to duty . That is , that's gonna 836 00:31:01,477 --> 00:31:03,588 be really empowering for airman if we 837 00:31:03,588 --> 00:31:05,755 can keep the message out there and the 838 00:31:05,755 --> 00:31:07,810 momentum behind it , that's the most 839 00:31:07,810 --> 00:31:09,977 important part because it's , it's not 840 00:31:09,977 --> 00:31:11,810 just about the individual that's 841 00:31:11,810 --> 00:31:14,310 perhaps uh improperly annoyed by the 842 00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:16,375 waiting period . It's everybody else 843 00:31:16,375 --> 00:31:18,263 that's watching , you know , what 844 00:31:18,263 --> 00:31:20,263 happens when you're a pilot and not 845 00:31:20,263 --> 00:31:22,430 flying ? I know this , I , it happened 846 00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:24,375 for the majority of the first five 847 00:31:24,375 --> 00:31:26,597 years of my career . I was the job zone 848 00:31:26,597 --> 00:31:28,930 control officer . I was read , you know , 849 00:31:28,930 --> 00:31:30,930 editing O pr s and EP RSI was , you 850 00:31:30,930 --> 00:31:32,930 know , doing the things that nobody 851 00:31:32,930 --> 00:31:35,041 else wanted to do because I was , you 852 00:31:35,041 --> 00:31:37,640 could , right . And so , you know , now 853 00:31:37,650 --> 00:31:39,372 my , I don't want to equate my 854 00:31:39,372 --> 00:31:41,428 circumstance to uh that , you know , 855 00:31:41,428 --> 00:31:43,650 that was cancer and not mental health , 856 00:31:43,650 --> 00:31:45,650 but , you know , it's actually more 857 00:31:45,650 --> 00:31:47,817 powerful with the mental health lens I 858 00:31:47,817 --> 00:31:49,928 think is that , you know , it's about 859 00:31:49,928 --> 00:31:51,983 what the other people perceive , not 860 00:31:51,983 --> 00:31:54,094 just the individual that's incredibly 861 00:31:54,094 --> 00:31:56,039 powerful . I want uh 11 thing real 862 00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:58,150 quick and I know you , I know we need 863 00:31:58,150 --> 00:31:58,040 to move on . But I think there's this , 864 00:31:58,050 --> 00:32:00,161 especially in the Air Force , there's 865 00:32:00,161 --> 00:32:02,459 this crew aspect that needs to be , I 866 00:32:02,469 --> 00:32:04,709 think , explored more and we've got a 867 00:32:04,719 --> 00:32:08,030 few , I think , really good um examples 868 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,151 at Dover . An example at mcguire when 869 00:32:10,151 --> 00:32:12,151 it comes to Sean's house and Sean's 870 00:32:12,151 --> 00:32:14,429 room is , you know , in the , you know , 871 00:32:14,429 --> 00:32:16,651 in our , in our world , we live and die 872 00:32:16,651 --> 00:32:18,540 by the crew . And especially when 873 00:32:18,540 --> 00:32:20,596 you're on a hard crew deployed , you 874 00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:20,310 know , which is the majority of the 875 00:32:20,319 --> 00:32:22,739 time that we're in combat that , that 876 00:32:22,750 --> 00:32:24,849 you gave you , you generate courage 877 00:32:24,859 --> 00:32:26,748 with the crew . The crew knows if 878 00:32:26,748 --> 00:32:28,859 you're on a good day , the crew knows 879 00:32:28,859 --> 00:32:31,081 if you're on a bad day , you know , but 880 00:32:31,081 --> 00:32:33,192 when we disaggregate after an event , 881 00:32:33,192 --> 00:32:35,303 we go to individuals again and I just 882 00:32:35,303 --> 00:32:37,415 think there's , there's room and it's 883 00:32:37,415 --> 00:32:37,410 not just the fly in the community , it 884 00:32:37,420 --> 00:32:39,476 could be the shift , it could be the 885 00:32:39,476 --> 00:32:41,642 guard mount , it could be the flight , 886 00:32:41,642 --> 00:32:41,170 it could be , you know , you name it 887 00:32:41,209 --> 00:32:43,359 the shop . But you know , this crew 888 00:32:43,369 --> 00:32:45,420 aspect of , you know , hey , we're 889 00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:47,652 gonna bring the whole crew in and we're 890 00:32:47,652 --> 00:32:49,652 gonna have a , a group session that 891 00:32:49,652 --> 00:32:51,708 just talks about , you know , just , 892 00:32:51,708 --> 00:32:53,874 hey , what , what's going on today and 893 00:32:53,874 --> 00:32:56,097 create an environment where it's normal 894 00:32:56,097 --> 00:32:58,152 for us to debrief as a crew and talk 895 00:32:58,152 --> 00:33:00,097 about the impacts of the day , the 896 00:33:00,097 --> 00:33:02,041 impact of the mission and not just 897 00:33:02,041 --> 00:33:04,152 leave it to the to the disaggregation 898 00:33:04,152 --> 00:33:06,319 of the individual to try to figure out 899 00:33:06,319 --> 00:33:08,541 on their own . I think there's a lot of 900 00:33:08,541 --> 00:33:10,263 normalized to conversation and 901 00:33:10,263 --> 00:33:12,374 normalize doing a debrief in the same 902 00:33:12,374 --> 00:33:14,319 way that we would debrief a normal 903 00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:16,097 exercise or deployment or soy , 904 00:33:16,097 --> 00:33:18,208 normalize the fact that , yeah , that 905 00:33:18,208 --> 00:33:20,430 was really hard for me and I had a very 906 00:33:20,430 --> 00:33:22,374 hard time with this aspect or that 907 00:33:22,374 --> 00:33:24,597 there's community to be found in that . 908 00:33:24,597 --> 00:33:26,819 And there's a reduction in stigma to be 909 00:33:26,819 --> 00:33:29,041 found in that . I think we see it a lot 910 00:33:29,041 --> 00:33:28,449 in Air Force heritage where we came 911 00:33:28,459 --> 00:33:30,403 together with things like heritage 912 00:33:30,403 --> 00:33:33,000 rooms , name , naming ceremonies , 913 00:33:33,010 --> 00:33:34,732 right ? All of these different 914 00:33:34,732 --> 00:33:36,788 traditions that we built up to build 915 00:33:36,788 --> 00:33:38,899 that sense of community to build that 916 00:33:38,899 --> 00:33:40,899 sense of identity . One interesting 917 00:33:40,899 --> 00:33:43,066 thing that you see very woven into Air 918 00:33:43,066 --> 00:33:45,121 Force history and culture . If we're 919 00:33:45,121 --> 00:33:47,232 looking at it , honestly , that dates 920 00:33:47,232 --> 00:33:47,140 back to World War Two when we had such 921 00:33:47,150 --> 00:33:49,640 incredible losses and combat stress and 922 00:33:49,650 --> 00:33:51,619 no words or language to talk about 923 00:33:51,630 --> 00:33:53,790 things like PTSD , it carried through 924 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,150 into Vietnam where we still didn't have 925 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,160 good terminology to talk about what 926 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,216 they were experiencing . And that is 927 00:34:00,216 --> 00:34:02,349 really a culture of alcohol use as a 928 00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:04,869 coping mechanism and as a way to numb 929 00:34:04,979 --> 00:34:07,579 to some extent the pain and distress 930 00:34:07,589 --> 00:34:09,589 that our that our airmen or service 931 00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:11,756 members were feeling and you , you see 932 00:34:11,756 --> 00:34:13,922 pretty strongly in air force culture , 933 00:34:13,979 --> 00:34:16,035 you made a statement to the squadron 934 00:34:16,035 --> 00:34:17,701 leadership course that you've 935 00:34:17,701 --> 00:34:19,923 reiterated on a few occasions that when 936 00:34:19,923 --> 00:34:21,923 you took command here at A MC , you 937 00:34:21,923 --> 00:34:24,035 opted to start a sobriety journey for 938 00:34:24,035 --> 00:34:26,257 yourself . And I'm curious if you would 939 00:34:26,257 --> 00:34:28,368 share , has that impacted your mental 940 00:34:28,368 --> 00:34:28,290 wellness ? Why did you make that 941 00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:30,522 decision ? And have you seen a shift in 942 00:34:30,522 --> 00:34:32,633 your own coping skills and leadership 943 00:34:32,633 --> 00:34:35,560 style since making that decision ? Um 944 00:34:36,090 --> 00:34:39,520 Still Tinder turf . Um 945 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,520 I , I think the American tradition of 946 00:34:44,530 --> 00:34:47,479 handling stress , stress is to the 947 00:34:47,489 --> 00:34:49,378 compartmentalization that got you 948 00:34:49,378 --> 00:34:51,600 through the fear to so that you could , 949 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,782 so you , so you could perform the act . 950 00:34:54,782 --> 00:34:56,949 You know , I had to , I had to do this 951 00:34:56,949 --> 00:34:59,004 to survive and perform the act and , 952 00:34:59,004 --> 00:35:01,060 and it's not just one but it's , you 953 00:35:01,060 --> 00:35:00,830 know , it's the , or the whole 954 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,629 deployment , the whole mission um is , 955 00:35:03,639 --> 00:35:05,861 is to not let that compartmentalization 956 00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:08,037 back out , you know , that it stays in 957 00:35:08,037 --> 00:35:10,037 that box and then that box is gonna 958 00:35:10,037 --> 00:35:12,149 open at some point at some point it's 959 00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:14,381 gonna open , you know , and it'll be on 960 00:35:14,381 --> 00:35:16,437 its terms , not your terms . And the 961 00:35:16,437 --> 00:35:18,659 other American tradition is to drink it 962 00:35:18,659 --> 00:35:20,770 away . I mean , there's no doubt . Um 963 00:35:21,020 --> 00:35:23,280 You know , I've , I've uh enjoyed the 964 00:35:23,290 --> 00:35:27,050 beverage and , and I 965 00:35:27,060 --> 00:35:29,820 did for many decades , I , 966 00:35:31,050 --> 00:35:34,389 I'm not ashamed of it . It , there was 967 00:35:34,399 --> 00:35:37,929 good times and um , and I 968 00:35:37,939 --> 00:35:41,719 simply outgrew it , you know , 969 00:35:41,729 --> 00:35:43,840 if I had to describe this . So , uh , 970 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,007 you know , part of the newness of this 971 00:35:46,007 --> 00:35:47,729 conversation is I , you know , 972 00:35:52,959 --> 00:35:54,626 I don't think I had a problem 973 00:35:57,270 --> 00:36:00,939 but I knew that it wasn't making my 974 00:36:00,949 --> 00:36:04,620 life easier , fun or better . And I , 975 00:36:04,629 --> 00:36:07,770 and I , and I just offer this that when 976 00:36:07,780 --> 00:36:09,669 you worried about , if you have a 977 00:36:09,669 --> 00:36:11,836 problem , I think you're worried about 978 00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:13,780 what other people think of you as 979 00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:16,012 opposed to how it's serving you in your 980 00:36:16,012 --> 00:36:18,179 life , in your relationship . And so , 981 00:36:18,179 --> 00:36:20,969 and so when you come out of the , is it 982 00:36:20,979 --> 00:36:24,459 a problem ? You know , and just start 983 00:36:24,469 --> 00:36:26,689 focusing on and it's not just drinking 984 00:36:26,699 --> 00:36:29,159 everything in your life and are those 985 00:36:29,169 --> 00:36:32,929 three grades easier , fun better . And 986 00:36:32,939 --> 00:36:35,050 it wasn't making my life any easier . 987 00:36:35,050 --> 00:36:37,161 It certainly wasn't making it fun and 988 00:36:37,161 --> 00:36:39,560 it wasn't making it better . And so , 989 00:36:39,570 --> 00:36:42,550 you know , I came back after I , you 990 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,616 know , basically in this job for six 991 00:36:44,616 --> 00:36:46,671 months and I'm , now I'm feeling the 992 00:36:46,671 --> 00:36:48,727 full weight , you know , and I don't 993 00:36:48,727 --> 00:36:51,060 mean that in a , in a way that was like , 994 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,287 oh dear God . But I , but it was a way 995 00:36:53,287 --> 00:36:55,453 of , hey , man , this is , this is a , 996 00:36:55,453 --> 00:36:57,620 this is a lot of responsibility . This 997 00:36:57,620 --> 00:36:59,842 is a lot of authority . We got a lot of 998 00:36:59,842 --> 00:37:01,620 work to do , uh , both in being 999 00:37:01,620 --> 00:37:03,787 prepared and the job we're doing now . 1000 00:37:03,959 --> 00:37:06,015 And , oh , by the way , I've got 2.5 1001 00:37:06,015 --> 00:37:09,389 more years to go . You need , it's not 1002 00:37:09,399 --> 00:37:11,419 a sprint , it's a marathon that you 1003 00:37:11,429 --> 00:37:13,596 need to show up for your airmen as the 1004 00:37:13,596 --> 00:37:15,818 best version of yourself that you can . 1005 00:37:15,818 --> 00:37:18,129 And so , you know , I read a few books . 1006 00:37:18,590 --> 00:37:22,239 Um , and I was walking 1007 00:37:22,250 --> 00:37:24,669 around the , I do a workout here where 1008 00:37:24,679 --> 00:37:26,846 I walk around the airfield . Uh , it's 1009 00:37:26,846 --> 00:37:29,012 about seven miles . Sometimes I have a 1010 00:37:29,012 --> 00:37:31,179 weight vest on . Sometimes it's just , 1011 00:37:31,179 --> 00:37:33,401 just me and the dogs . But I got to the 1012 00:37:33,401 --> 00:37:35,346 memorial , the 135 memorial on the 1013 00:37:35,346 --> 00:37:37,346 other side of the runway and it was 1014 00:37:37,346 --> 00:37:40,159 Memorial Day of 20 22 . And I just said , 1015 00:37:40,169 --> 00:37:42,336 I mean , it was , then I just said I'm 1016 00:37:42,336 --> 00:37:44,558 done and I'm gonna see if , if I can do 1017 00:37:44,558 --> 00:37:47,620 it and , and I realized that not all 1018 00:37:47,629 --> 00:37:50,060 have the same , but I mean , I , I , 1019 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,350 I'm not , it , once it was done it was 1020 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,439 done , I've not , uh , it's not 1021 00:37:56,449 --> 00:37:58,671 something I lay awake and worry about . 1022 00:37:58,671 --> 00:38:00,959 I don't run away from the decision . 1023 00:38:00,969 --> 00:38:03,080 It's still kind of hard to talk about 1024 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,320 in terms of , you know , the , the , 1025 00:38:06,209 --> 00:38:08,376 you know , the mental process that got 1026 00:38:08,376 --> 00:38:10,487 me to that point . I don't know why . 1027 00:38:10,487 --> 00:38:12,542 Uh , but at the end of the , I don't 1028 00:38:12,542 --> 00:38:14,709 care , I've discovered that I can have 1029 00:38:14,709 --> 00:38:16,876 as much fun at a party that I actually 1030 00:38:16,876 --> 00:38:19,229 gain energy and more enjoyment from the 1031 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,239 sessions where drinking is going on 1032 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,406 because I know that I'm not gonna feel 1033 00:38:23,406 --> 00:38:25,461 like the next day . Um , I , I don't 1034 00:38:25,461 --> 00:38:27,739 worry about designated drivers anymore . 1035 00:38:27,739 --> 00:38:29,850 I'll be anybody's designated driver . 1036 00:38:29,850 --> 00:38:31,961 Um , I don't look down on people that 1037 00:38:31,961 --> 00:38:35,520 do participate . Um , uh , and , 1038 00:38:35,729 --> 00:38:38,350 and nor do I run away from the times 1039 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,290 that I had while I was . But the 1040 00:38:43,090 --> 00:38:46,949 assessment of easier fun 1041 00:38:47,110 --> 00:38:50,889 better could not have been rewarded 1042 00:38:50,899 --> 00:38:54,330 more for my personal life . I , 1043 00:38:54,399 --> 00:38:57,189 um , you know , every part of my life 1044 00:38:57,199 --> 00:39:00,110 is better because of that decision . I 1045 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,850 don't miss it . There'll be an 1046 00:39:01,860 --> 00:39:05,120 occasional , uh , time where maybe , uh , 1047 00:39:05,129 --> 00:39:07,351 in a restaurant , a glass of wine , the 1048 00:39:07,351 --> 00:39:09,462 waiter or waitress , you know , walks 1049 00:39:09,462 --> 00:39:11,573 up by and I get that sniff and I go , 1050 00:39:11,573 --> 00:39:13,796 uh , but I don't think , oh , I'll have 1051 00:39:13,796 --> 00:39:16,409 me one of those . So , same with a tray 1052 00:39:16,419 --> 00:39:18,669 of chocolate desserts . Exactly . You 1053 00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:20,901 know , give away that workout , uh , in 1054 00:39:20,901 --> 00:39:23,012 one dessert binge . So , I mean , but 1055 00:39:23,020 --> 00:39:25,076 this goes for a lot of things . It's 1056 00:39:25,076 --> 00:39:27,187 not just drinking . I mean , it's the 1057 00:39:27,187 --> 00:39:29,464 people you hang around with , it's the , 1058 00:39:29,464 --> 00:39:31,631 uh , I think you're talking about what 1059 00:39:31,631 --> 00:39:33,631 happens in your perspective , shift 1060 00:39:33,631 --> 00:39:35,576 when you start a mental health and 1061 00:39:35,576 --> 00:39:35,290 mental wellness journey and you begin 1062 00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:37,649 looking at priorities for what serves 1063 00:39:37,659 --> 00:39:40,330 me and what matters to me and what 1064 00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:42,979 helps me show up in my own life in a 1065 00:39:42,989 --> 00:39:45,260 way that's better in my relationships 1066 00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:47,326 as a commander , as a wingman , as a 1067 00:39:47,326 --> 00:39:49,381 friend , as a spouse , whatever that 1068 00:39:49,381 --> 00:39:51,270 looks like . And I think a lot of 1069 00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:53,214 airmen discover themselves in that 1070 00:39:53,214 --> 00:39:55,048 process . So whether it's , it's 1071 00:39:55,048 --> 00:39:56,826 drinking or social media use or 1072 00:39:56,826 --> 00:39:58,992 whatever coping skill that someone may 1073 00:39:58,992 --> 00:40:01,439 choose to use when you start that 1074 00:40:01,449 --> 00:40:03,671 journey to mental health and wellness , 1075 00:40:03,671 --> 00:40:05,393 and you get the chance to take 1076 00:40:05,393 --> 00:40:07,560 ownership of your own life for some of 1077 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,600 us for the first time because we've 1078 00:40:09,610 --> 00:40:12,080 been reacting to things instead of 1079 00:40:12,090 --> 00:40:14,679 proactively choosing how we respond . 1080 00:40:14,899 --> 00:40:17,121 There's incredible freedom in that . Uh 1081 00:40:17,121 --> 00:40:18,820 there's joy , there's renewed 1082 00:40:18,830 --> 00:40:20,941 relationships and there's the ability 1083 00:40:20,941 --> 00:40:22,886 to show up better for yourself and 1084 00:40:22,886 --> 00:40:24,997 others , whether that's at work or at 1085 00:40:24,997 --> 00:40:24,959 home , things that matter to us as 1086 00:40:24,969 --> 00:40:26,830 people and as airmen across the 1087 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,000 spectrum . Yeah , I'm not , I mean , 1088 00:40:29,010 --> 00:40:31,177 you know , the phrase I'm using lately 1089 00:40:31,177 --> 00:40:33,232 is , you know , to get to me now you 1090 00:40:33,232 --> 00:40:35,399 had to go through me then . OK , I'm , 1091 00:40:35,399 --> 00:40:37,510 I'm not ashamed of me then . Uh but , 1092 00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:39,677 but me then to me now , I mean , I'm , 1093 00:40:39,677 --> 00:40:41,899 I'm on this , you know , I realize I'll 1094 00:40:41,899 --> 00:40:44,066 never get to the finish line on this . 1095 00:40:44,066 --> 00:40:46,121 But I'm , I'm trying to be better in 1096 00:40:46,121 --> 00:40:48,288 every aspect of my life . You know , I 1097 00:40:48,288 --> 00:40:48,189 think the , the message to anybody 1098 00:40:48,199 --> 00:40:50,830 listening would be if , if , if there's 1099 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,770 a voice in your head that's saying I'm 1100 00:40:53,780 --> 00:40:56,209 drinking too much or I might , you know , 1101 00:40:56,219 --> 00:40:58,790 do I have a problem ? You know , just 1102 00:40:59,590 --> 00:41:01,701 acknowledge that , but that's not the 1103 00:41:01,701 --> 00:41:03,923 issue . It's not about a problem . OK . 1104 00:41:03,923 --> 00:41:07,330 It's about fun , easy and better and , 1105 00:41:07,340 --> 00:41:09,396 you know , even if you do it for one 1106 00:41:09,396 --> 00:41:11,530 month and have an honest conversation 1107 00:41:11,540 --> 00:41:14,070 with yourself and , and at the end of 1108 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:15,747 that month after , you know , 1109 00:41:15,747 --> 00:41:19,050 abstaining to say is my life easier , 1110 00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:21,590 more fun and better . It would be hard 1111 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,600 for me to believe that you wouldn't 1112 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,933 answer yes to all those things and then , 1113 00:41:25,933 --> 00:41:28,156 and then make the decision , you know , 1114 00:41:28,156 --> 00:41:30,267 I , uh , you know , there's , there's 1115 00:41:30,267 --> 00:41:32,267 some cultural things here , there's 1116 00:41:32,267 --> 00:41:34,433 some family things here . Um I'm not , 1117 00:41:34,433 --> 00:41:36,959 I'm not ashamed of either and I enjoy 1118 00:41:37,149 --> 00:41:39,540 where I'm at right now , much more than 1119 00:41:39,550 --> 00:41:41,606 where I was at three years ago while 1120 00:41:41,606 --> 00:41:43,606 still holding the gratitude for the 1121 00:41:43,606 --> 00:41:45,606 person that you are that got you to 1122 00:41:45,606 --> 00:41:47,828 today . And that's part of that journey 1123 00:41:47,828 --> 00:41:50,050 is holding the gratitude for the person 1124 00:41:50,050 --> 00:41:52,217 that you were , that was able to bring 1125 00:41:52,217 --> 00:41:54,272 you to a place where you could reach 1126 00:41:54,272 --> 00:41:56,272 out and ask for help , discover the 1127 00:41:56,272 --> 00:41:55,770 fact that it wasn't for the airmen . It 1128 00:41:55,780 --> 00:41:58,002 was for you , make choices for your own 1129 00:41:58,002 --> 00:42:00,002 mental health and wellness and then 1130 00:42:00,002 --> 00:42:01,836 advocate for airmen . And we are 1131 00:42:01,836 --> 00:42:03,891 incredibly grateful , sir , both for 1132 00:42:03,891 --> 00:42:05,836 the time that you've spent with us 1133 00:42:05,836 --> 00:42:07,891 today . But more importantly for the 1134 00:42:07,891 --> 00:42:09,836 work that you've done on behalf of 1135 00:42:09,836 --> 00:42:12,058 airmen to push forward the conversation 1136 00:42:12,058 --> 00:42:14,113 on mental health and wellness and to 1137 00:42:14,113 --> 00:42:16,224 tie it into to combat readiness . And 1138 00:42:16,224 --> 00:42:18,447 to showcase that it is a part of normal 1139 00:42:18,447 --> 00:42:20,669 maintenance of combat readiness to care 1140 00:42:20,669 --> 00:42:22,724 for your mental health and to ensure 1141 00:42:22,724 --> 00:42:24,780 that you're ready , not just for the 1142 00:42:24,780 --> 00:42:24,534 stressors of every day , but for the 1143 00:42:24,544 --> 00:42:26,600 stressors that might come when we're 1144 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,766 called in defense of the nation . So , 1145 00:42:28,766 --> 00:42:30,766 thank you on behalf of the airmen . 1146 00:42:30,766 --> 00:42:33,100 It's been a pleasure . I'm proud of you , 1147 00:42:33,100 --> 00:42:33,010 Jane . Thanks .